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« Hello, again! | Main | Who really cares about the "2%" anyway? »

December 18, 2008



Well said Adam.


Sorry, you lost me when you started calling Rick Warren names.

I definitely don't agree with Warren, but I'm not going to bandy about the word 'bigot' because he doesn't think the same way I do. I'm not going to hate him.


This is such a HUGE disappointment for me as well Adam. I can't help but feel that Obama's action reaffirms the stereotype that the African American community has an anti-gay bias.


Sorry, Epilonious but he is a bigot. He publicy endorsed Proposition 8 here in California, ergo bigot.


Yeaaaah, and the millions of other people (read, majority) who don't like the idea of gay marriage are bigots too. As are you, as am I.

And you know what doesn't make people want to listen to our reasons as to why we think we should get such things as gay marriage and equal rights and will make them constantly redouble their efforts to take back whatever scraps gays snatch from the table? Running around calling generally respected pastors (even if you don't respect him, a lot of people do) names.

As much fun as it was to see Christianity and Black/Latino people labeled as the villains in the whole gay marriage fiasco (and yes, I'm being ironic), I'm sort of appalled at how 'Teh Gay Community' has run around throwing tantrums as if A. They didn't expect this might happen or B. Tantrums are the best way to get things.

I always prefer things earned with logic and work and thought. Alas, going 'he's a biiiigoooot, how can you deal with him being such a biiiiigoooot!?' seems more like the tactic a petulant child would employ trying to explain why he should get ice cream for dinner.

It seems like it would be so much better to try and actually deal with these people as if they were human and could be convinced we are not evil and it would really make all our lives easier and better if we got equal rights and stop acting like no-one can ever change their mind about anything and therefore must be discredited or destroyed when discovered to not support the things you wish they would.

Radical and difficult concept, I know. This is about the point start accusing me of tapping into some great well of internalized homophobia and/or being a massive troll because I dared to disagree and say "I really find this whole anger-fueled proclamation thing to be unbecoming and counter-productive."


Well I'm sorry to say this Adam, but this is what you and all the millions of myopic Obama supporters get. I'm pretty confident that an individual such as Warren would not be speaking at a Clington inauguration.

Trunk Guy

You have been Tagged... check my B for more info... ;)

Arthur (AmeriNZ)

Adam, you know how much I think of you, and that goes way back. And I agree that it was indefensible to pick that bigot (sorry, epilonious, but he definitely is one for reasons too numerous to list, but including that he has shown absolutely no reason to think he can be reasoned with or that he'll ever compromise).

Adam, how can you or anyone else seriously suggest that because of this colossal mistake the election of this incoming administration will be for "all gay people all over the world, a day of utter defeat". Come on, how can this new Administration on it's worst day be anything but a billion times better than the current regime on its best? And "all over the world?" The US just isn't that important in the day-to-day life of most gay people outside the US. Quite frankly, Prop 8 and Rick Warren mean absolutely nothing outside the US borders. It's worth remembering that it was the Bush-Cheney regime that made sure the US voted against the UN gay rights resolution—you can't pin that on picking Warren to do his preachifying.

Am I pissed off about Warren? Absolutely! But this is not the end of the world. Obama is NOT Bush!

As for Carlos' Obama-bashing, get real: Hilary is a politician, too. If she thought it was too her benefit, she'd do the exact same thing. They are ALL alike in that regard.

What all this—passage of Prop 8, the picking of Warren—shows is that we must never, EVER rely on straight people to speak for us to look after our interests. We have to elect our own to advocate for us. We need a GLBT "Emiliy's List", and we need the street radicals, too.

Obama disappointed us. So what? We all need to take responsibility for creating change and not wait for some great straight savior of any party, race or gender. We are on our own. The sooner we realise that, the sooner we'll win.


I don't see how labeling Warren a BIGOT is name calling. There are bigots out there who have said things far less offensive and dangerous than Warren has.


You might like to click on the link I've given at the bottom of this post. While C. Hitchens certainly has gone off the rails re: Iraq, this is food for thought. If you all have trouble with "bigot", why not Hitchens's "huckster". And please will everyone step back from debating with epilonious about what word we use to describe the undereducated, over-inflated snake-oil salesman of Saddleback "church". Language is certainly key to understanding the Prop 8 debacle (the opposition largely don't understand that 'marriage' is a Civil procedure, not Church-authorized; I know, I've talked to many of them, and I've realised this is an argument about language), and over the last eight years the Cheney Administration has achieved its dreadful ends by corrupting language, BUT there is something much bigger at stake here and Hitchens's piece makes the point very eloquently:

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